Boardroom Conversations with Shelley Reys

Episode 11: Shelley Reys – the Voice to Parliament, how boards can approach reconciliation, and planning for the Brisbane Olympics

Shelley Reys AO MAICD is the CEO of Arrilla Indigenous Consulting, plus a Board Member and Partner and KPMG Australia. She’s also a board member with the organising committee of the Brisbane Olympics and the Chair of the Council for the Order of Australia. We talk about the referendum on the Voice to Parliament, how boards can approach reconciliation, and planning for the Brisbane Olympics. 

Transcript

BENNETT MASON

Welcome to boardroom conversations, a podcast from the Australian Institute of Company Directors. My name is Bennett Mason. Thanks so much for joining us. In each episode we’ll have candid conversations with some of Australia's leading directors, delving into their background journey to the boardroom and some of the challenges they’ve faced along the way. I’m pleased to say our guest this time is Shelly Reys, a Djiribul woman of far north Queensland. Shelly is the chair of the Council for the Order of Australia, the CEO of Arrilla Indigenous Consulting, plus a partner and board member at KPMG Australia. Some of her many previous roles include Co-Chair of Reconciliation Australia, Vice Chair of the National Australia Day Council and Chair of the National Centre of Indigenous Excellence. Shelley, thanks so much for joining us.

SHELLEY REYS

Hello, Bennett.

BENNETT MASON

Now before we talk about your remarkable career, I'd like to start by speaking a bit about your family. Your father, Frank, had an astonishing life. He was a legendary jockey here in Australia and even won the Melbourne Cup way back in 1973. What do you remember about your father and what are some of the things you learnt from him?

SHELLEY REYS

Well, yes, it is an extraordinary story that not a lot of people know about. But yes, I do have a very accomplished father, came from impoverished means in northern Queensland, grew up in the Atherton Tablelands and in Cairns, one of 14 kids. And there were several boys in the family who loved to ride. My dad was one of them, but he was the only one that ended up turning it into a vocation and it went on to be a very successful jockey. When he won the Melbourne Cup, I was only six years old at the time. So to answer your question, finished, my memories are through the lens of a six-year-old, so it's a really useful one. And I was naive. I thought everybody's dad rode a horse, I thought everybody had a horse like I did. And of course, you don't realise until you get older how fortunate you were and how different perhaps, the situation was. But when he won the Melbourne Cup, I really realised it was very different to other dads because the atmosphere and the attention that was placed on him was pretty enormous. But no one could have been more proud of my father than our own family. This was something that everyone always hoped for him, and every jockey wants to win the Melbourne Cup. And of course, he had been riding in many Melbourne Cups across his career. But to win it in his early fifties, he was considered to be a very senior rider and had some bad luck along the way. He was out of the saddle due to injury for 43 weeks, which is an extraordinary period of time, and went on to win the Melbourne Cup. You know, all of these sort of stories, really courageous and heroic and they're all the things that I remember about him. Also, of course, a very kind man, very humble. And speaking of humble, this year marks the 50th anniversary of him winning the Melbourne Cup, and the Victorian Racing Club is getting ready to do a whole range of things in celebration of that. And I'm sure he would be very embarrassed by all the attention that's around the corner, but I'm sure he'd be very proud too.

BENNETT MASON

Your father certainly had an amazing life and you've had a pretty extraordinary career yourself, so let's talk about that now. We mentioned your company, Arrilla Indigenous Consulting. It helps to raise organisations’ cultural competency to work with First Nations peoples and it helps them to work in the indigenous space more effectively. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your organisation does?

SHELLEY REYS

Sure. Well, I have a well-worn theory that I started the business on 32 years ago, so well-worn that some people actually say it back to me now. But my theory is that when you start talking about indigenous topics, you use the word “Indigenous”, “First Nations”, “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander”, “Reconciliation”. Any of those words all of a sudden make people nervous. Even the most proficient leaders can start to be afraid of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing, making a mistake, sounding racist. They begin to walk on eggshells. And so, I guess the way that I describe our work is that we remove the eggshells. We give people skills, but we also give them confidence to be able to work in the space more effectively, whatever that might mean to them. Perhaps it means launching a program. Perhaps it means Indigenous procurement strategies that are effective. Perhaps it means developing a Reconciliation Action Plan. Or as a chair or board member, perhaps it means being able to lead in this space effectively. How do I lead? How do I articulate why we're involved in this space? What sort of conversations could I be having with my shareholders, with our partners, with our people? How do we make sure that we don't leave people behind and bringing people with us? And what role as a leader do I have in this space? So, part of it is providing skills and confidence. And I would also say something that we do, which is really critical, is demystifying Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander topics. So, making it more accessible for people. Firstly, with leaders across organisations and then across entire workforces.

BENNETT MASON

I want to talk more about reconciliation and cultural competency in a moment. But just to stick with your own career, you mentioned a moment ago you began Arrilla Indigenous Consulting 32 years ago and it's still going very strong today. But you've also held a number of board positions over the years, and we mentioned those at the beginning of the episode. What made you decide to become a director? And even now, how do you decide which boards you want to join?

SHELLEY REYS

Well, at first, I really fell into it. It wasn't any master grand plan. I was very young, I would say. I was in my mid-twenties. I had just moved to Sydney from Melbourne and had just established a really great network of friends, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander friends. And some of those were involved in the creation of the first Aboriginal run and owned radio station here in Sydney, now known as Koori Radio, and I got passionate about that with them. And one thing led to another, and I became a director of the board to help establish Koori Radio. We all worked really hard as board members. In fact, all of us had a radio program to try and keep us on air. “Champagne Shelly” was my deejay name at the time, and we had a lot of fun. But it was a lot of hard work too. And it was certainly a real insight into what kind of work is required, not just from a governance perspective, but also what the expectations are. When you work in a community-controlled organisation serving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and their expectations on you. So, it was critical, it was really important, it was fun, it was difficult. All of those things. So, I've been on and off boards for all of my career and I would say for the 30-35 years that I've been doing that, they've all been rewarding in different ways. Today I have very little time, spare time. And I'm asked to be on boards all of the time. And I'm sure that those that are listening to this podcast now who have considerable board experience, would also be getting those kind of phone calls. I make decisions based on a couple of things. First of all, where can I have impact? What would my impact look like? And where can I have the impact? I also ask: has got a national footprint? And that's important to me too. So, something I'm less likely to be involved in, something that has a smaller footprint, but a larger footprint makes best use of my time. And it's also important for me to be seen and to play my part as any director might. So, I don't see myself as an Aboriginal director of the board. I'm just the director of the board and I take my responsibilities very clear that one should be able to participate in the full width and breadth of any director and not be seen as an Aboriginal director. So, if I get the sense that the people that are talking to me about a board appointment are looking for an Aboriginal appointment, then I usually steer clear.

BENNETT MASON

I say, I should say that “Champagne Shelley” is a spectacular deejay name and I'm guessing you don't use that moniker too much now in your professional life?

SHELLEY REYS

No, I don't. In fact, I don't think there's many people that know that. But there you go. There's the scoop, Bennett

BENNETT MASON

One final question on Arrilla. You found that it way back 32 years ago, and it's grown from strength to strength since then. Back in 2006, I think it was, you began a joint venture with KPMG, and you've also joined their board. What made you decide to do that deal?

SHELLEY REYS

So, KPMG had been a client of mine for about six or seven years prior to those discussions. And so, what transpired was that I sold a minority share in Arrilla to KPMG. And my reasoning for that was to gain access to expertise that I couldn't find elsewhere. I had always been impressed with the calibre of people across KPMG, the things that they were able to do there, their emotional intelligence which I rate highly when it comes to doing Aboriginal and Torres stood on the work. And so, I saw it as an opportunity to get access to expertise but also to scale up. I was also launching a digital version of our work at the time called Arrilla Digital, and I needed some support to do that. And so, it seemed like everything was aligning all at the right time. And so, yes, as I said, I sold a minority share in Arrilla to KPMG. At the same time, I took on a partnership and yes, later became a board member of KPMG too. So, there's a number of hats that I wear. It can be confusing for a lot of people and even sometimes confusing for me. “What hat am I wearing now?” Not necessarily each day, but every hour. And it took some time for that relationship to work. Having a small Aboriginal owned and managed business become part of an enormous machine that is KPMG was not easy and KPMG weren’t accustomed to going into joint ventures with Aboriginal organisations, let alone any other organisation. KPMG instead, had a lot of experience in acquiring organisations, not procuring from them, but acquiring them holus bolus. So going into a partnership model was really unusual for them and not being the majority shareholder and stakeholder, it was also unusual for them. So, there was a lot of teething problems in the beginning, but we found our way, found our path. It did take a couple of years and I can say now very thankfully that it is a relationship that really works. It's very respectful. It is one where we profit from each other in terms of skill basis. And what I love to say is how much KPMG learns by being involved with Arrilla and our work. It really extends their capability as well as their interest in Indigenous issues.

BENNETT MASON

Now, you were the first Indigenous partner at KPMG, but that's just one of many firsts you've had throughout your career. You are now the first Indigenous Chair of the Council for the Order of Australia and its first female Chair and the first Chair of Reconciliation Australia. What does that sort of trailblazing mean to you?

SHELLEY REYS

I don't think about being a trailblazer very much, Bennett. I just see me getting on with the job. But I do appreciate though that there is a role modelling element to that. There is an old saying that you can only be what she can see and so if I am in some small way inspiring other Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people or women to be and do their best and to give these things a try, then I would be very much complimented.

BENNETT MASON

I want to talk a little bit more now about the work that Arrilla does. As we mentioned before, it helps companies, government organisations and NFPs to raise their cultural competency to work with First Nations people. But how have you seen attitudes towards First Nations people shift over time? Have there been changes? Have there been improvements? What has the difference been over the last few decades?

SHELLEY REYS

There's been an enormous amount of change and just to think about it now just blows my mind, to be quite frank. When Arrilla first started, it was started by my cousin Darren O’Young. He asked me to join him from Melbourne to Sydney to help him establish the business in Sydney, which I did. And he died shortly after. And so, I never say that I was the founder of Arrilla, but I certainly helped to establish it in Sydney, and I've been running it myself ever since. And if I think about those times and what I inherited from him, other than a great deal of enthusiasm and knowledge, what I also inherited was a vision. And the vision for Arrilla at the time was to provide training services to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to help them be more successful and competitive enough in the job market. When I took over, after a long pause and a lot of reflection and a lot of discussions with my family, what I decided to do was to change the vision and the course of the business. What I wanted to do was to talk to the private sector about Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and business. I had a view, and the rest of Australia had a view, that the work of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples was the work of government. That was government's job, that was government's work to do. But no one had considered the private sector and I was absolutely firm of the view that they had a role to play. And in fact, if engaged, would be able to do extraordinary things and really shift the dial in ways that government can't do because of their bureaucracy. So, I started doorknocking symbolically, and probably in reality too, talking to the private sector and testing their appetite. And it was tough work. It was really tough work. But slowly and surely over the years and over more years and over more years, those doors were being opened, those conversations were being had. Those eggshells that I spoke about earlier were being removed. And now we sit here at a time, Bennett, where we see major corporates all around the country and small private sector organisations also actively involved with Reconciliation Action Plans, who are really shifting the dial and doing things that governments simply can't do. And are paving the way for a whole range of organisations to see what's possible. And I'm very, very pleased to see that.

BENNETT MASON

Some large companies, like KPMG or local big, listed firms, have been thinking about cultural competency for a long time. But I'm sure there are still other businesses, other companies and NFPs that might just be beginning to think about these issues and starting their reconciliation journey, as it were. What are some key steps that the boards at those organisations can take to get things going?

SHELLEY REYS

Well, first of all, I think it's important for boards to understand why they'd be doing it in the first place. Just as it's important for the entire organisation to be able to understand and articulate why they're doing this, don't do it just for the hell of it. Understand what the business case is, understand who your clients are, what your people think, and if you feel as though it's the right space to dance in, then take the next step. The next step, I think, is to think about what we talked about in the late nineties actually, and the early 2000s, which was this triple bottom line. You know, boards and chairs were talking about the notion that there were different ways to measure your success beyond revenue. You could also measure success by thinking about social outcomes and environmental outcomes. And while I think that that was really valuable, there were very few organisations, particularly boards and chairs, that knew what that really meant. And I still come across boards and chairs that don't know what that really means. And so, I would encourage boards to really, again, in thinking about the business case, be able to articulate what that triple bottom line looks for them. And when you start to unravel that, what you learn is how important it is for an organisation to make a contribution to the communities in which it works. And when you realise how important that is, then you can measure what that means. So, what is the social return on my investment for being involved in this space? An organisation like KPMG not too long ago measured its impact. It was able to ascertain that what it put into the community, and into its Reconciliation Action Plan for example, gave them millions of dollars’ worth of revenue in return. So, there's a real clear business case, bottom line case for being involved in this space. When you also dig even further, you realise that your people, your staff are really invested in this topic too. They’re interested in reconciliation. They're interested in outcomes, better outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. They're interested in organisations that play their part and do this well. There's lots of data to show that. So being involved in this space helps people to stay in step with their people, but also their clients. If boards would just to take a pause and think about and look at their competitors, they'll quickly see that they are all dancing in this space too. And many of them doing it very well. So, it's important to stay in step with those very important people.

BENNETT MASON

You mentioned measurements a moment ago. Are there certain metrics that you would recommend boards use when it comes to reconciliation? And are there particular questions that boards should be asking of management and senior executives?

SHELLEY REYS

Well, interestingly, this is seen as the leadership skill to have across the CEO network. You would be surprised to learn how many CEOs approach me and have a relationship with me to help to support them in what is essentially their leadership journey. And I'm not quite sure if it would be surprising or not. But many CEOs, well known CEOs across the country, see this as the leadership piece to have. So first of all, I would say it's important for chairs and boards to support their CEOs to do that, not just for their careers, but for all the reasons that I mentioned before around the business case and the business that you are there to provide stewardship to. I think it's also important for boards to be well informed. So, make sure that you're not making uninformed decisions and having uninformed discussions. Create a space where you can raise your cultural competency and capability so that you can be working in this space more effectively.

BENNETT MASON

We mentioned earlier that you were the inaugural chair of Reconciliation Australia. Could you describe for us why it's so important for organisations to have Reconciliation Action Plans? And I guess for our purposes, what is the responsibility of the board in creating an effective RAP?

SHELLEY REYS

So, a Reconciliation Action Plan is designed to provide a framework for the organisation, about how it's going to reach its reconciliation goals. The idea behind a RAP is that it's wrapped around the entire organisation, as the name implies. So, the responsibility of the actions within the RAP don't sit with a small handful of people, but instead a whole range of people across the entire organisation. It's measurable to such an extent that you're answerable to Reconciliation Australia at the end of the period, at the end of the term of your RAP. And so that makes it quite different to other strategic documents. And a really good RAP will also have not just people who are responsible for the actions, but their performance will be measured against their ability to bring those actions to fruition. So, I think a Reconciliation Action Plan is a great place to start. If people haven't thought about, if boards haven't thought about the notion of having a RAP just yet, it's a really great introduction or entry level piece to the reconciliation space. And the great thing about that is that there's a RAP community out there too. So, you can go online, you can see other people's Reconciliation Action Plans that are at the beginning stages just like you, or people who are working in the same sector as you. So, you can see a bit of like-for-like and people that are perhaps more advanced than you. So, you can see what you're aiming for. But all of these things are a really safe place and a very welcoming place for first timers when it comes to boards and reconciliation. As time goes on, things change. You learn more, you do more, you be more. And so, your reconciliation journey will keep changing and therefore your RAP will keep changing. And so too, is it important for your leadership style on the board to change too, to stay in step with how you're growing, what you're learning, what you're doing. Really important.

BENNETT MASON

Are there companies or organisations that have had what you think is a particularly effective RAP? And what can other organisations maybe learn from those examples?

SHELLEY REYS

I'd hate to call out individual RAPs because there's just so many of them, but I will say that there's a number of tiers to a RAP. And the top level, the top tier of a RAP is called an Elevate RAP, and as I understand it, there's about 14 organisations with an Elevate RAP in Australia. They would be the ones that you would look to as providing a great example of what success looks like and outperformance. Elevate RAP organisations are designed to be doing things completely out of the box, trying new things, being totally courageous in this space, and so they are the really interesting ones to look at.

I also think a measure of success is not having a RAP. So if you, I'm not saying that one graduates when it comes to reconciliation or their RAP. But like me and my career, when one no longer needs a Reconciliation Action Plan or needs a Shelley Reys, then you are indeed successful. If you've made it part of your everyday and you don't need something special or specific to help you reach a reconciliation or Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander outcomes, then you're successful.

BENNETT MASON

Shelley, I wanted to ask you about governance more broadly, because we are obviously an organisation that promotes good governance. Australia's system of corporate governance is still very much based around Western or European ideas. But what could we learn, do you think, from First Nations concepts of governance?

SHELLEY REYS

First of all, can I say that organisations that are community and Aboriginal-controlled and owned do extraordinary work when it comes to governance. They're exemplary with good governance and there is a lot to learn from them. The other thing I'd say is that Aboriginal and Torres people are collaborators. Inherently we are collaborators. So, a standard board will probably meet every board meeting and perhaps at some events. But when you're talking about Aboriginal people and governance and boards, we meet regularly, often socially. We know your partner’s name, we know how many kids you've got. We know that your mum's been sick. You know, we have really substantive relationships with people and that makes for really trusted relationships, which is fantastic around the board table. The other thing I'd say about Aboriginal people is we're inherent storytellers. So, on a standard board you would receive a set of papers and a set of reports that are all very standard and formulaic in many ways. But when you're sitting with a group of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people on the board, you get real colour and movement to these reports. You get a real gritty picture of what's occurred and what happened next and what we need to do next. It's a different way of presenting information and I think it's highly engaging and really interesting. And it makes again, for better discussions and better decision making. And as a chair, what I've always tried to do is think about how I can get the best out of someone. Because not everyone performs well at a board table. They’re there for very good reasons. You've addressed your skills matrix and you've decided that they're the right people to have on the board for a whole range of reasons. But they don't necessarily work well in a board environment. And I think it's really important for a chair to think about how I can get the best and the most out of that individual. So for example, some people might perform better outside of the boardroom. They might value a discussion after they've received the board papers and before the board meeting, so on and so forth. I think it's really dangerous to have a cookie cutter approach to board meetings and to board participation.

BENNETT MASON

I think that's great advice for all chairs and all boards.

SHELLEY REYS

I think what people could learn from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people on boards is good for every board. It's the same as providing a degree of cultural competency within an organisation. If you're creating culturally safe teams, then you're providing safe and welcoming and thriving environments for everybody, not just for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander employees. And it's a bit the same on a board.

BENNETT MASON

Shelley, First Nations peoples would undoubtably have a great deal to contribute to any boardroom around the country. Yet it's often an underrepresented group. We've seen over the years some improvements with gender diversity, especially on ASX listed boards, but we haven't seen a lot of change, or enough change perhaps, with cultural or racial diversity in boardrooms. And there are very few First Nations directors, certainly on ASX boards. How can we address this and how can we encourage that pipeline of First Nations directors?

SHELLEY REYS

There's a lot of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who would like board experience or have good board experience or good transferable skills for a board. I think the challenge lies with the boards themselves and the chairs. And I do think that there's still a high degree of racial bias. I think you can call it unconscious bias, if you like, which is the buzz phrase these days. But there is, I think, still a bit of a way to go for people to look at Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples in the broad spectrum, in terms of what they can offer. I think there is still a view, a limited view about who Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are and what they're capable of. So, I think that needs to be addressed and don't see them just as someone that can provide advice on cultural matters. They are people that are extraordinarily skilled, who can provide advice on a whole range of matters, that makes them a well-rounded board candidate.

BENNETT MASON

And when it comes to the pipeline, where is the blockage coming from? Is it chairs and boards themselves? You need to be looking at a wider pool? Is it the recruitment firms, headhunting organisations? What's the issue here?

SHELLEY REYS

My guess is that the recruitment firms and boards are looking to the same cohort of people time and time again for board roles. And I know that because I get all those emails and all those phone calls.  They do need to think broader and bigger. And I do think that again, that's all part of one’s bias. You know, you need to cast the net further and wider to be able to pick up some of that talent. And depending on the job and depending on the board, that kind of a net will look different. So, you just need to adjust as you go along and make sure that the pool that you're looking at is far wider and broader than the standard set of people that you might always deal with.

BENNETT MASON

Shelly, I want to ask you now about what is one of Australia's big stories of the year, and that's the Voice. We know we've got a referendum coming up and many boards of all shapes and sizes are debating whether they should have a public stance on this issue or whether they should stay silent. We don't need to get into the politics of the Voice, but what's your advice to directors on how they can come to a decision on whether they should even publicly state a position or not?

SHELLEY REYS

I think that the Voice to Parliament is something that's confusing people at the moment. And if boards are confused about what a Voice is, then they're not going to be able to make a decision whether they want to back it or not. So, the first challenge is to understand it better. And I think the difficulty or the challenge in that is that there's a lot of misconceptions and myths that are flying around out there. There are so many myths in circulation that it really is confusing so many people. And these are people who are not biased. These are good spirited people who just want to do the right thing and want to learn more and have their concerns and questions answered without judgement. And so, I've been doing a series of keynote addresses around the country to do just that, to unpack what does the Voice mean. What is the context of the Voice in a 33-year or 32-year reconciliation journey that we've been on so far? And what are those common myths and misconceptions? And I step through them one at a time to give people the facts. And by the end of the keynote, people are in a very strong position to be able to make an informed decision and have more informed discussions on the topic. And I'll often facilitate that discussion for them at a board level so that they can arrive at some decisions. It also helps them to get some insight into what other organisations are doing and thinking and what their path has been, which I think is really important. Overall, though, ten times out of ten when people have more information, they find it much easier to make a decision one way or the other. I think that the organisations that have decided to back the Voice, come out with a public position, are organisations that have already been working on that piece around the business case for being involved in this space that I was mentioning before. So, they know that their people have an expectation that they're leading in the reconciliation space, and they want to stay in step with them. They know that their competitors are involved in this space and doing leading work and see that this is a really important next step in the reconciliation journey. So, they want to stay in step with them. They know that the referendum includes all voting Australians, and they are their customers, and they are their shareholders. They are their partners, so they want to stay in step with them. So, the key thing is, I think, is just unpacking what the confusion is at the moment so that people can make informed decisions.

BENNETT MASON

Let's try to clear up a little bit of that confusion then. As you mentioned, all Australians are going to be heading to the ballot box later this year. And many of us are still undecided. What are some of the key things that Australians should be thinking about?

SHELLEY REYS

Can I say, first of all, the easiest thing for people to do is probably to watch my video that I released three weeks ago onto YouTube, which is a very, very easy 9 minutes of people's lives, which unpacks some of those misconceptions and clarifies what a Voice is. And I really recommend that is as an easy go-to. And so for example, one of the important things to know is that there's an overwhelming number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people supporting the voice. The Voice concept was conceived by thousands of community or community consultations around the country with an overwhelming support for Voice to Parliament. So that's where the Voice was conceived. And then the government, the Coalition government undertook its own consultation phase involving tens of thousands of people and organisations. And then we have surveys that have consistently shown throughout the year that over 80% of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people support the Voice. So, I think it's really important for people to know that this is something that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people stand behind, by and large. There's still a cohort of Aboriginal and Torres Strait people who still don't understand what a Voice is. And so that's a real challenge for the “Yes” campaign, reaching those communities and helping them understand it a little bit better. But I think that Australians need to move forward in the full and frank knowledge that the vast majority, over 80% of Indigenous Australians, support a Voice. And I think that's it's important because one of the important elements of the reconciliation movement is being led by the voices of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. I think that the “Yes” campaign have been very quiet to date and that has allowed the “No” campaign to be very noisy. So that creates some confusion for people, and I think that's why many people probably think that most Indigenous Australians don't support a Voice when in fact it's the opposite. Something else I'd mention too is that - and boards certainly are thinking this. They're wondering, is this a political issue? Do we want to get involved in a political issue? And everybody's talking about this. And the thing I'd say is that, how disappointed I am that it has become a political issue and it's become a political issue because it's been politicised by politicians. If it hadn't been politicised by politicians, people would see this as a human rights issue because that is what it is. It's a human rights issue. And if you're not a person of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent listening to this podcast right now, it's highly unlikely that any of the advice that the Voice gives to the Government and Parliament will affect you at any time.

BENNETT MASON

The Voice has been dominating the news in Australia pretty much all year, but another story that's been in the headlines over the last month was Victoria announcing it would not be holding the upcoming well, what was going to be upcoming Commonwealth Games. You are on the organising committee of the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games in Brisbane. So, I want to talk to you for a moment about the challenges of organising these major massive sporting events. Can you tell us what is the role of the Brisbane Olympics Organising Committee and what are some of those key governance challenges when it comes to organising any major sporting event? And especially the Olympics?

SHELLEY REYS

Yes, it's a huge undertaking and we at the Organising Committee for the Olympic Games, Brisbane 2032, are very grateful that we have nine years in lead up. We had ten actually when we were appointed, which meant that we had the longest lead time of any country in the Olympic history for hosting an Olympic Games. And so, we're all very grateful for that. So our role is to put on a show, to put on the event, on behalf of the athletes, to present the Olympic and Paralympic Games in 2032. And I think that when people heard the news about the Commonwealth Games, it really rocked them, rocked them for a whole range of reasons. There was a commitment that was made by the Victorian Government. Rocked them, particularly if they were one of those many organisations that had contracts with the Commonwealth Games and were in the process of delivering and in lead up to delivering and had planned so much of their businesses around that. But let's not forget in that the young people who'd been working so hard for so many years, some of them at a very, very young age working up to this moment of the Commonwealth Games to be athletes and to be at the peak of their performance and how crushed they would all be. And so, there's a whole lot of people that I was feeling for at that time. But can I assure everyone that's listening here today that the Brisbane Olympic Games, in fact any Olympic Games is very, very different to a Commonwealth game. I mean, obviously the Commonwealth Games is restricted to the countries of the Commonwealth, but the Olympic Games has a completely different infrastructure, a completely different revenue base, for example. And as a case in point, the International Olympic Committee provides, a revenue stream to the Brisbane Olympic Games for its own costs, which is very useful. And Brisbane Olympic Games in part won the opportunity to host the Olympics and Paralympic Games because over 80% of the venues were already in existence. So, you combine those two things and what you end up with is a governance and a revenue base that's very different to the Commonwealth Games and places a lot less pressure on the state of Queensland in hosting the Olympic and Paralympic Games. We also are part of this new world order of the Olympic Games with Brisbane, which is to say that we're delivering not the Olympics and the Paralympics, but we're delivering a legacy piece. So, our job is to not look at just the event itself, but the ten years leading up to the Olympics and Paralympics and ten years after. So how can the state of Queensland profit from the Olympics and Paralympics across a 20-year period?

BENNETT MASON

Look, I know it's nine years away, but I can't wait. And when tickets go on sale, I'll be lining up to. Shelly, you've been very generous with your time. Thanks so much for joining us on boardroom conversations.

SHELLEY REYS

It's a pleasure. Thank you.

BENNETT MASON

Listeners. Thanks for joining us on Boardroom Conversations. I'm Bennett Mason from the AICD. We hope you enjoyed the show, and you can find more episodes in your podcast feed. Please join us again soon.